All good things tend to go pop from time to time. If we work backwards there's the example of the Dot.com bubble crash. In the early 90s came the recession and if I remember right under Maggie's era we had Black Wednesday.

That's almost 30 years and the pattern is obvious, you always have a rough storm every 10 years.

The war has played it's part but I don't think it can be considered the major factor here - US Federal banks and UK banks have screwed up royally over the years due to pure greed. It's well documented how in America they loaned money to people who were unable to afford it in the first place (Sub-Prime) only to find they will fall behind on their payments again.

Consumers have got more and more selfish due to their needs and wants, their attitudes have changed with little regard of the impact if they are unable to pay.

(Trying real hard not to make this a boring, tedious thread about finance)

...Not so long ago, say up until mid 1990's if you were declared bankrupt, it was a taboo, say like getting divorced in the 1940s. It was an embarassing ordeal and I think your name was printed in the local paper declaring you were skint. In the past couple of years that attitude has changed and consumers will take out credit cards and loans. The credit cards will be than we maxed out, money they can not afford themselves, loans spent on clothes, improvements to breasts, the ass, lips, house improvements, expensive cars etc.

Now when the time comes to make payments the consumer will say 'ain't got the money' they'll go to their local bankrupt supermarket pay £400 and have the debt written off.

Don't get me wrong there will be genuine people, out of work due to illness, separations and other just reasons who can not afford to pay. But if thousands upon thousands of people were carrying out this process where money was being spent with little or no regard to paying it back, no conscience at being declared bankrupt than our Economy is going to go straight to pot.

If people make the choice to immigrate in their thousands (which is exactly what's happening, with Sunny considering packing his bags too) than Great Britain is going to have to change name to Skint Britain.

Did you know just across the pond the French have little use for Credit Cards? Why? They don't believe in being in debt..

All good things tend to go pop from time to time. If we work backwards there's the example of the Dot.com bubble crash. In the early 90s came the recession and if I remember right under Maggie's era we had Black Wednesday.

That's almost 30 years and the pattern is obvious, you always have a rough storm every 10 years.

The war has played it's part but I don't think it can be considered the major factor here - US Federal banks and UK banks have screwed up royally over the years due to pure greed. It's well documented how in America they loaned money to people who were unable to afford it in the first place (Sub-Prime) only to find they will fall behind on their payments again.

Consumers have got more and more selfish due to their needs and wants, their attitudes have changed with little regard of the impact if they are unable to pay.

(Trying real hard not to make this a boring, tedious thread about finance)

...Not so long ago, say up until mid 1990's if you were declared bankrupt, it was a taboo, say like getting divorced in the 1940s. It was an embarassing ordeal and I think your name was printed in the local paper declaring you were skint. In the past couple of years that attitude has changed and consumers will take out credit cards and loans. The credit cards will be than we maxed out, money they can not afford themselves, loans spent on clothes, improvements to breasts, the ass, lips, house improvements, expensive cars etc.

Now when the time comes to make payments the consumer will say 'ain't got the money' they'll go to their local bankrupt supermarket pay £400 and have the debt written off.

Don't get me wrong there will be genuine people, out of work due to illness, separations and other just reasons who can not afford to pay. But if thousands upon thousands of people were carrying out this process where money was being spent with little or no regard to paying it back, no conscience at being declared bankrupt than our Economy is going to go straight to pot.

If people make the choice to immigrate in their thousands (which is exactly what's happening, with Sunny considering packing his bags too) than Great Britain is going to have to change name to Skint Britain.

Did you know just across the pond the French have little use for Credit Cards? Why? They don't believe in being in debt..

All good things tend to go pop from time to time. If we work backwards there's the example of the Dot.com bubble crash. In the early 90s came the recession and if I remember right under Maggie's era we had Black Wednesday.

That's almost 30 years and the pattern is obvious, you always have a rough storm every 10 years.

The war has played it's part but I don't think it can be considered the major factor here - US Federal banks and UK banks have screwed up royally over the years due to pure greed. It's well documented how in America they loaned money to people who were unable to afford it in the first place (Sub-Prime) only to find they will fall behind on their payments again.

Consumers have got more and more selfish due to their needs and wants, their attitudes have changed with little regard of the impact if they are unable to pay.

(Trying real hard not to make this a boring, tedious thread about finance)

...Not so long ago, say up until mid 1990's if you were declared bankrupt, it was a taboo, say like getting divorced in the 1940s. It was an embarassing ordeal and I think your name was printed in the local paper declaring you were skint. In the past couple of years that attitude has changed and consumers will take out credit cards and loans. The credit cards will be than we maxed out, money they can not afford themselves, loans spent on clothes, improvements to breasts, the ass, lips, house improvements, expensive cars etc.

Now when the time comes to make payments the consumer will say 'ain't got the money' they'll go to their local bankrupt supermarket pay £400 and have the debt written off.

Don't get me wrong there will be genuine people, out of work due to illness, separations and other just reasons who can not afford to pay. But if thousands upon thousands of people were carrying out this process where money was being spent with little or no regard to paying it back, no conscience at being declared bankrupt than our Economy is going to go straight to pot.

If people make the choice to immigrate in their thousands (which is exactly what's happening, with Sunny considering packing his bags too) than Great Britain is going to have to change name to Skint Britain.

Did you know just across the pond the French have little use for Credit Cards? Why? They don't believe in being in debt..

I hate triplicate threads!

Good points but I think its important to remember Sheks initial comment about the war, which has played its part in this crisis, coupled with the fact that the government chose to announce the collapse and subsequent loan to Northern Rock. Would things be different if those two things never happened?

Life is cyclical and the economy has been growing over the years steadily (i forget but is it something like 2%) now I suppose its just taking a down turn.

We could point the finger at loads of factors which have contributed to this mess but if we look across the pond a little further to India which is enjoying an economic boom with property prices expecting to rise by 400% in the next ten years the question is also is this something about the world's natural order: have Britain and America been enjoying the good life for too long and now its someone else's turn?

Seems fair enough, though I'm not happy to stick around to be part of the rot, the best thing about being an individual is the freedom that comes with it, so I say let's move people.

I'm thinking Vancouver?

Id love to emigrate about now....

Totally agree shekhs, uk is suffering massively with the issues you raise, but pravaah, me bein the div I am being in an idealistic lifestyle, Id probably end up stayin jus to try and improve it as best as i can....or cant lol

GP, very impressive bro! Excellent points raised.

B2b, I love you woman.....

:-D

Big love to all of you who responded..triple posts notwithstanding, theres some valid points raised here.

Being old enough (ahem) to remember the labour govt's last little sojourn in power, it isnt much of a surprise to see things have started to crack at the seams pretty badly. And as youve suggested B2B, CANADA is a great place to go, simply because they are one of the few countries that have the self sustaining axiom very correct. The irony is that for a develped country, they are still very young and are actually UNDER POPULATED.

Cyclical trends aside, i can't envisage any major truama like black wednesday, or the 15% interest rates , or even the total property market collapse of the early to mid 90's, BUT the effect here is going to be LONG STANDING and like being in a torpor or malaise for years on end, simply because inevitables like the rising cost of oil ( which CANNOT BE STOPPED, as oil will eventually reach scarcity levels in the next 20 to 30 years) and the knock on to everything else that depends on it ( theres a lot more than people realise), is part of the equation too.

The irony, as someone above as already pointed out, is that the poorer developing nations are enjoying the boost they finally deserve, because the "clever clever" approach, coupled with mistimed speculation due to absolute information overload ( and abuse), has caused the developed world to screw things up royally.

its comical, as i can remember years back, an old lecturer said that the internet will create a lot of nonsense due to a lack of policing...

he was right.

On the bright side (there is ALWAYS one), people with guts, choice and fiscal daring can emigrate.

Sunshine.....bliss...

:-D x

Shekhar I blame your website for the triple post.

Bride2Be I like your comments, I shouldn't because they're smarter than mine. Shekhar's mentioned the war which would definitely be considered towards the impact on the British Economy, I would have to say I personally see certain factors contributing more than the war in Iraq. Spending millions on a war that wasn't necessary against weapons of mass destruction that don't exist doesn't help, nor does the Government's methods to control the Northern Rock fiasco.

You could also question whether the society we now live in spends millions of pounds they can ill afford due to the intense coverage of beautiful, rich successful celebrities on TV and in magazines and more and more people wanting to
' live the life of these stars' ?

Also ask yourself Education? If you remember GCSE Maths and questions like 'two trains travel at speeds of 60 mph, one from London to Edinburgh the other from Edinburgh to London. Jim is on the London train and McCoist on the Edinburgh train..... I mean what sort of a question was that in maths? And we all came across the train question and I still don't have a clue what the meaning of that question was.

If we had questions related to APRs, Interest rates, a focus on Mortgages, Credit Cards and Loans which would have educated children on finacial management than perhaps we would not be in this current mess.


Karma - (that word makes me think of 'My name is Earl' straightaway) but it's an interesting way of looking at it. The US and the UK have had rich and very successful decades and if that financial growth filters to countries such as India with it's current boom than that's their gain and the loss for the US and UK. It does amuse me how UK companies transferred businesses over to India for cost cutting purposes and looking back it's not the UK markets that are thriving.

:-D

What has my website got to do with your triple distilling here?

As stupid as it sounds I thought you were Sunny when I typed that. It just clicked a few seconds ago what I did and I had a sneeky feeling that would be the first thing you'd pick up.

See how you didn't reply to anything else I said ?

(long sigh)

bro, are you a bit emotional?

chill praava...youre a local hombre, so if you want to have a chat, then give me a bell.

He thought is was your site!!!


... isn't it!?

Possesion is 9/10ths of the law. And 9 times out of 10 your here more than sunny...

Cheers Mola.

Just heard this morning that Ford sold their stake in Jaguar and Land Rover to India's Tata company. Heard about this company a few years back, being stupid for a second but doesn't that mean poo ?

Seems like India is the place to immigrate to with such a successful boom in the economy the talking point of this thread and today this....certainly has got me curious to know - What life in India would be like ?

youre right on the india front there bro. The broadsheet analysts have been screaming about asia being the next boomer for years, and not a lot of people have listened. Those that did, emigrated and set up business already.

Its ironic when i look at india and how theyve managed to acquire two very british companies with such ease. I beamed with pride when i found out the other day, probably because it's so real and in your face, rather than some obscure acquisition you read about in FT or the finance chunks in other broadsheets.

The other thing worth noting , is that
asia has had many years of watching how the west has not only grown, but tumbled on occasion, and theyve perhaps learnt a great deal about allocation and dissemination of resources and how NOT TO do things.

I don't know about emigrating to India guapa. It strikes me that although the economy is booming unfortunately the culture (and all the good and bad that comes with it) isn't progressing at the same ratio (you should watch the documentary on India they broadcasted last year).

I was seriously contemplating the move last year, but that documentary changed a lot. The everyday things which we often take for granted would be very different there (privacy, education, equality of opportunity to name but a few)

Emigrating seems like an obvious choice but I'm not convinced it is the best choice - or one that I could live with. Although wasn't it James Joyce who suggested that going home was development?

Sheks you're right, India has been waiting, and now its come out to play...
The Tata acquisition of Jaguar and Land Rover was inevitable (its been talked about for months) and its makes me proud too. If it means that more people than ever will be talking about the man himself Jemset Ji Tata that is a great thing too...(he's a pivotal part of my never ending novel!!)

Entrepreneurs are celebrated in Indian culture (in Navsari alone there are hundreds of emblems remembering Tata, from road names, to schools to figures) that is one thing they don't do here. I've never known as many here if one. If its one thing Britain should learn from India its to celebrate the culture of enterprise and actively encourage it (rather than ensure that everybody toes the line). Its played a significant role in India's continuing economic success.

agree with bride2be.

the econimic growth only applies to 10% of the population.

unfoirtunately you still have to deal with the other 90% on a daily basis.

issues such as castism, religeous bigotry, sexism, prejudice against skin colour, homophobia etc etc make it a really uncomforable place.

plus why would anyone want to move to a country where the politicians do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGWvASr8DIs&feature=related

Thanks for the link - I remember when this happened.

It just goes to show how many monkeys are sat in Political Seats throughout the world.

Bride2Be - you mentioned a documentary but no name for the documentary. The issues highlighted by yourself of privacy, education, equality of opportunity could be considered in whichever country you were to live in. In my opinion the education system here has fallen way behind and I'm sure I read that India's education system has developed much stronger than that over here. The issue regarding job opportunties I can understand is different but if you were to apply to a recognised business with a strong reputation you should not have the same problems with lesser known companies who expect a backhand bung to get you employed. Compare that to the (some might say cliched) situation of two people with similar educations one black and one white - who would get the role? The prospect of equal opportunities isn't balanced any better in this country.

Mola made comments regarding discrimination and again it's something we've lived with for generations over here, it's just another life experience out there for us - develop us into stronger characters.

okay hang on a minute...

The documentary was called The Indian Miracle? and it was on Channel 4 you might be able to catch it on youtube.

I admit when I was talking about privacy I meant being able to do things without anyone knowing...apparently v.difficult to even have girl-boy conversation there without people going back to other people who go back to other people who tell everyone they know and so on!
When I said 'education' I was not referring to the system in place, which is regarded v.highly I was talking about the unfortunate corrupt state of things and opportunities for everyone to get an education. A very small percentage of the population are actually literate.

Equality of opportunity, there again I meant we don't have people here who for generations have done nothing but clean toilets. We do have people moving up and (occasionally down) the social stratification system.

But of course things are changing there and people are embracing change.

Sorry if I didn't make my points clearer. I think when Mola put his comment right after mine it made it sound worse than it was. It didn't mean to sound as if I'm a hater - I'm married to an Indian for God's sake!

"if you were to apply to a recognised business with a strong reputation you should not have the same problems with lesser known companies who expect a backhand bung to get you employed."


That's not true. The MNC's based in India ahve HR depts run by Indians. So you can guess what happens next.

The fact is most of the well educated young people in India who can't afford backhanders, or who don't have rich/influental family... end up working in Call Centres.

The grass is always greener...

True grass is always greener.

I have to say, as much as the west is demonised (by ALL peoples, even indigenous folks too) I prefer the factor of rights here over the social intrusion you have ''back home''. But having said that, I am learning of very open liberal living in the towns and cities, which I DO see as a positive progressive thing...AT LAST.

Though I'm not Indian, I am damn proud to see the huge economic success its reaping Shekhs pravaah and your right, it HAS been partly to the 'wait and see' dynamic I think, they learnt the lessons etc. Plus the sheer size of the nation as a whole, collectively can mirror America's success within itself I think, definitely.

But in terms of corruption, guys lets face it, every country has corruption. It's just way more aggressively unjust and obvious in in south Asia.....

But GP gotta say (before I make this post waaay too long) that Mola's points are ring home. Bro in this country, if we feel we've been unfairly treated, you can STILL hold the law, companies, employers, politicians (some anyway...) to account. Try doing that in India or Pakistan....
Casteism, sexism, religious bigotry etc are being challenged there, yes. But is it being effectively reduced using tough policies, enforcement of those policies, going hand in hand with a rising national sense of wanting that change? Hell.No. It's slow dude, veeeery slow.....